T. Harry
Williams Center for Oral History Collection
INTERVIEWEE NAME: Theodore “Ted” Schirmer #
4700.0981
IDENTIFICATION: Vietnam
veteran
INTERVIEWER: Robert Talley
PROJECT: Americans in
Vietnam
DATES: 11/19/74 FOCUS DATES:
7/9/66-4/5/70
Feb
3, 1967-Sept 10, 1968
ABSTRACT:
Tape 1430, Side A
birthplace, parent's divorce; mother's
remarriage to a musician, Ted moved around constantly as child; financial ups
and downs in childhood; changed schools frequently; lived in Las Vegas, Nevada
for six years; moved to Baton Rouge; sports and part time job in Baton Rouge;
ran away, returned to Las Vegas; belonged to gangs in Vegas; job at Denny's
restaurant in Vegas re-enrolled in high school; importance of education;
influence of his step family; worries about his grades; returned to his Baton
Rouge, finished high school; integration of Istrouma High School; friends with
Rosetta, the only black student in his high school, and trouble this caused
him; students' attitudes toward Rosetta; racial incident in St. Louis; brother
who joined Navy; John Wayne movies, culture of war; course work at Istrouma
High School; interest in Vietnam war; planned to attend LSU after graduation on
track scholarship; joined Navy; comparison of boot camps for different branches
of service; psychological manipulation, humiliation, during boot camp; useless
training in Navy boot camp; humiliating remedial boot camp called “4050";
suicide attempts of guys in 4050; escape attempt from boot camp; Filipinos in
the Navy; other abuses in 4050; laundry and shoe shining scam during boot camp;
boot camp hierarchy; negotiating what position he'd have on ship; worked on
operations on Mekong riverways; petty officers were usually misfits;
volunteering for unpopular assignment; father's WWII service; training in
various places.
1430, Side B
sadistic POW camp simulation during
training; reality of POW situation; experiences of an American POW; arrival in
Vietnam on rattletrap airplane; seeing American bodies unloaded from plane;
plane that was shot up, pilot injured; harassment attacks; people he knew who
were killed in Vietnam; ratio of worry to likelihood of dying; US soldiers who
went crazy, tied up everyone in camp; spent eight months in Vung Tau building a
camp; Schirmer learned Vietnamese, transferred down to Cat Lo (?); watching
B-52 strikes; became interpreter, by Tet of 1968 couldn't trust ARVNs; learned
language by mingling with people, participating in their culture; American
opinions on Vietnamese; saw American convoy run over a Vietnamese child;
Schirmer alienated from other US soldiers because of his interest in the
Vietnamese people; married a Vietnamese woman in a Buddhist ceremony, had a
child, rented a village from an ex-Viet Minh whose son was VC; came to
understand the VC as revolutionaries; Ho Chi Minh as local hero; realized he
was fighting an imperialistic war; corporate interests involved in war; NVA
responding to US aggression; Schirmer sent home early because he was “going
Asiatic”; low opinion of commanding officers; dangerous power of commanding
officers; altercation with commanding officer; weaponry, Schirmer's
responsibility cleaning weapons; volunteered for chopper missions; battles
between VC and Australians; enjoyed flying missions; never killed anyone, as
far as he can tell for sure; morbid dreams of going home dead as a hero;
suspected John Wayne movies had influenced him; lots of people over there had
similar fantasies of heroism; later in the war, more people drafted who didn't
want to be there; war as traditional male rite of passage; Vietnam veterans who
feel guilty now; change in attitude of American public; when his mother died,
military flew him home on emergency leave, he took “coffin flight,” plane full
of dead bodies; growing anti-war sentiment by 1968; racial trouble in Vietnam
when Martin Luther King, Jr. assassinated; Vietnamese people thrilled by his
command of language; Schirmer lived in VC neighborhood, unafraid; adopted
Vietnamese food, and clothing; almost got shot by Americans one night because
of his black pajamas; Vietnamese attitudes toward Americans; US caused war to
escalate; Schirmer's wife Hue in Vietnam.
Tape 1431, Side A
TAPE IS VERY MESSED UP, GOES IN AND OUT
OF COMPREHENSIBILITY
first personal contacts with Vietnamese
civilians were with Mamasans; friend who got Vietnamese woman pregnant;
commanding officer punishing friend for impregnating woman; Schirmer's troubles
with superior officers; amazing power of his communist-hating commanding
officer; ; communists killed whole families; met Hue during Tet of 1968, was
his wife there; definition of “wife”;
VC confiscated all his stuff; enjoyed living in VC area because not many
US military authorities around there; Schirmer accepted by people there, only
worried during early morning hours.
Tape 1431, Side B
Tape is blank
Tape 1432, Side A
marriage arrangement helped protect his
property; Vietnamese police could confiscate possessions of Americans; offered
to marry her legally when he found out she was pregnant, but she didn't want to
leave her family; later she changed her mind but too difficult; problems with
Vietnamese postal system; wife Hue sympathetic toward the VC, because she could
relate to them as patriots; Schirmer witnessed so-called free election in
Vietnam, saw how it was controlled; dictators in Vietnam; demographics of
people who fled Vietnam when Ho Chi Minh took power; majority of Vietnamese
would rather end war and become one country under North Vietnam; communists will
slaughter people who caused war, kept it going; “black market” is misleading
term; black market trade in stereos, cigarettes, liquor; R&R trip to Saigon
and Bangkok; stayed in hotel in Saigon where American deserters lived; scam
involving taxi cabs and stolen ration cards; scams in Bangkok; US military
bases cause black market activity; bribing police with packs of Salem
cigarettes; corruption among military police; Oriental people are looser, more
tolerant; in Christianity, we can't be what we really are without sin and
shame; Asians understand life and human nature better; whole markets of
American products in Saigon; black market availability of hard to get items;
excitement of being only 19 years old and having unlimited access to liquor and
prostitutes; anti-prostitute propaganda; realization that the government lies
to public; prices for different grades of prostitutes; little boys touting
their sisters and mothers; prevalence of prostitution; massage parlor that
specialized in oral sex; Schirmer used to get cheaper rates because he was so
well known there; barber shop at massage parlor; techniques of barbers; had to
buy bar girls “Saigon tea”; costs of bar girls, overnights; bar girls were
better educated, spoke good English, made lots of money; bar girls bought and
sold bars, lost money and bars gambling; GIs who were too uptight to visit
prostitutes; gambling, playing cards, gambling at gin rummy and tic tac toe;
French solitaire; Chinese games, dice; prevalence of drugs; marijuana and opium
both laced with heroin; Vietnamese replaced tobacco in cigarettes with
marijuana, resealed cartons; smuggling marijuana; smoking opium with his
landlord; hemp and George Washington; increased number of draftees changed
attitudes, drug use; marijuana didn't affect Schirmer when he tried it in
Vietnam; harmlessness of marijuana and opium; hearing about anti-war sentiment
in US, riots, assassinations; military press, the Stars and Stripes, reported
everything as communist-motivated; when he returned to US, had anti-peacenik
sentiment; finding out that the government was full of bullshit and lies; US
shouldn't have been in Vietnam; escalating; US has to get in trouble since it
has such a huge military; oil in South China Sea; LBJ's aims; Gulf of Tonkin
affair.
Tape 1432, Side B
Gulf of Tonkin affair; Vietnam war was
the fault of the American people; Schirmer wants to organize people not to
stand for this sort of thing;
corporations and military
TAPES: 3 TOTAL
PLAYING TIME: 4 hours
# PAGES TRANSCRIPT: 7 page index
RESTRICTIONS: none