INTERVIEWEE NAME: Rev. Lesslie Newbigin

COLLECTION: 4700.0604

IDENTIFICATION: Britons in pre-Independence India

INTERVIEWER: Frank De Caro, Rosan Jordan

PROJECT: British Voices in South Asia

DATES: 6/21/78 FOCUS DATES: 1930s

Tape 883, Side B

The British were respectful of Indian customs, for example government office hours which were originally staffed by Brahmins who had religious duties as well; annual festival in Kottur Purram, the Jugernaut Car; Brahmins recognized British power, but retained the deep sense of being Brahmins; story about old style missionary with a handlebar mustache who was used to ordering people around; he tried loudly and angrily telling a beggar to go but the beggar would not leave until a near by Brahmin made him leave with only one word; Hinduism is a resilient way of life, capable of adapting to change without altering its fundamental character; Scottish missionary/educator, Alexander Duff, who established a college in Calcutta where all future leadership of the Indian National Movement was trained; Duff was criticized for teaching Latin, geography, and history rather than preaching the gospel, but responded that AI am laying a mine and when it explodes the whole of Hinduism will blow up@; Newbigin disagrees upon retrospect because the mine has exploded but Hinduism is not a granite block, but rather a sandbank that changes shape; British interest in Hinduism--modern and secular anthologies of Indian literature and poetry, the footnotes show that most translations were made by Christian missionaries in the early 19^th century; story about Newbigin as missionary in Madras--the newly formed DNK government organized an international congress to celebrate Tamil culture; they erected statues depicting great creators of Tamil culture; Newbigin received a telephone message urging him to offer the DNK chief minister statues of 19^th century missionaries, Pope and Caldwell, and to come up with the money to make statues; after consulting Indian friends and raising funds, the chief minister accepted the statues and Newbigin was invited to address a congregation of 250,000 people; he spoke about Pope and a Hindu scholar followed with a second speech; one of those missionaries (Pope and Caldwell) had established the Tamil language as a distinct identity, not dependent on Sanskrit; the other missionary laid the foundations for the Tamil lexicon and first translated Tamil classics into English; the statues still stand on the Marina; 1900-1920, there was an intense interest in Hindu culture, but this decreased with time; some people thought that India was not enlightened by French philosophy, but the 18^th century saw India as wise--part of the ancient East; the Taj Mahal not something an Auncivilized@ nation would construct; Contact with Eurasian/Anglo-Indians; they were part of his congregation in Madras; most of them have left and gone to Australia; the Anglo/Indians suffered because they were given special status by the British but did not seek higher education as did their Hindu contemporaries; thus when the British left, they had to fend for themselves so a large number of them left; story about Anglo-Indian girl who became more Indian as she worked with him; story about voyage from Liverpool to Madras and entering the Suez canal--everything changed--the officers changed uniforms and people wore topees [?] on their heads to blend in with Indians and prevent heatstroke; issuing salt tablets to prevent dehydration dissolved the wearing of topees [?] overnight, but Anglo-Indians continued to wear them because their identities were tied up in the topees [?]; previous to the introduction of salt tablets people had to wear topees [?] which could be purchased at Simon Arts [?]; voyage to India--going to a costume party dressed as the Missionary of Fiction and won prizes; Agoing native@ meant an adoption of Indian culture, a few people Awent native@, but it was frowned up to break away Afrom the tribe@ (of British); the debate among his colleagues about the importance of dress versus the importance of relationships between people (trust); only a few people adapted to Indian culture--like anthropologists; the government regarded the missionaries as a nuisance as well as an asset becuase of their relationship with the Indian people that the government officers did not have; missionaries were running a large number of welfare activities such as schools, clinics, experimental agricultural projects, etc. This was respected and encouraged by the government , but the social/class differences existed between missionaries who were not as well paid as the government officials; the hierarchy of the missions and chaplains; the Scottish were the last to integrate with the Union of Churches in South India until Prince Phillip visited South India and persuaded them to join; despite lower socio-economic status than the government officials, missionaries nevertheless had servants--he had three; some Americans refused to have servants, but this caused resentment because this meant less jobs for villagers and more reliance on machines (washing machines); the gardener carried water to the bucket in the bathroom rather than having indoor plumbing; a 14 year old boy named Moses, a chokra, was with his family until they left India in 1974, something this culture doesn=t understand and considers shocking; servant class comprised of several different castes becuase only certain activities were allowed of certain castes; the bungalows were built in the Aold style@ and necessitated house servants to maintain, but modern style flats are now being built so that you can run a house by yourself, however it is much cheaper to run a house the Aold way@; transportation by bicycle, car, and walking to communicate to parishioners; touring districts and remote villages, the ICS also had this tradition; analogy of biblical tale David and Saul to caddy and golfer; his wife=s view about being a wife and a mother , she refused to get involved in church committees but opened her home to everyone--this fits into the Indian concept of womanhood

TAPES: 1 TOTAL PLAYING TIME: 30 minutes

# PAGES TRANSCRIPT: 2.2 page index

OTHER MATERIALS: none

RESTRICTIONS: none

NOTE: This collection is also deposited with the Centre of South Asian Studies at University of Cambridge.