ABSTRACT

INTERVIEWEE NAMES: Kate Garrod/ Margery HallCOLLECTION: 4700.0576

IDENTIFICATION: Pre-Independence Britons in India

INTERVIEWERS Frank De Caro/ Rosan Jordan

PROJECT: British Voices in South Asia

DATES: 2/1/78 FOCUS DATES: 1930s

Tape 838, Side A

Recording made in home in Middlesex, England; spent 18 difficult months in India with her three small children; hearing from people returning from India, some said it was absolute hell, some said it was fascinating; drinking water in India; living without refrigeration; government shouldn=t post families to places like that; people not understanding how difficult the conditions were; they=d been sent to a Apunishment area@ of India; things too appalling to talk about; other posts in India and Kashmir before sent to the bad one; story about a dying man who was put in a soaking wet bed; helpful Maltese doctor who stayed with the man, no nurses available; appalled by everything getting so wet in torrential rains; Hall is always asking questions about why things happen; wife of dead Englishman wanted husband cremated in Hindu tradition; drawbacks of cremation, cremation denied; she wanted him burned so his demise would feel final; two terribly incompetent doctors in India; man buried on his 28^th birthday, on rainy day; troops involved in funeral, dropped coffin; nurses didn=t appear until funeral, Hall was horrified at their nerve; repeatedly refers to memoir she wrote about her time in India, trying not to hurt people with her writing; got champagne in bazaar after funeral, Hall trying to decide if she should go home to England or marry her fiancee and stay with him in India; decided to get married; man she met who planned to write a book based on his experiences in India; man from New Zealand who died in India; Garrod found India interesting, but never the twain shall meet, lived there for 28 years; she served in voluntary unit in WWI; brother was wounded in war; Garrod used to walk four miles each morning, but now has health problem; considers India very primitive; impossible to change the East; ask why the interviewers are interested in India; DeCaro spent a year in India, same place as one of the women=s husbands; husband was secretary to high-up British residents, got in a fight with lady of the house because one of his chores was supposed to be cutting the cake at tea; DeCaro was teaching in an Indian college; she hears the trains have improved; DeCaro elaborates on his interest in India; when Margery was in India, standard of living had risen since Kate=s time there; British women trained Indian servants to perfection; Margery also lived in Borneo, where the servants were appalling; felt that on the whole, British rule was wonderful for India; Indians won=t touch beef and Muslims won=t touch pork, so trouble finding a suitable cook; standard of European living was high in larger Indian towns, but Indian standards appalling; difficulty living on their low pay; high quality British women went to India and trained servants; squalor in some places was unendurable; before WWI, all the people who went out from Europe were aristocrats, were used to high living and high thinking; started her married life there in 1921, spent 30 years there; had interesting, happy life; both women agree we should not try to change India; problems of Brahmin Indians as workers; spending time in Poona at start of WWII; describes British community she lived in within city; scarcity of supplies such as meat; husband had to motorcycle to work; opinions on Gandhi, caused bloodshed and trouble; Gandhi=s relations with a British admiral=s daughter; Gandhi wasn=t fasting, he was forcibly fed; interviewees debate whether it was more of a crime to forcibly feed him, or let him die; whereabouts of jail where Gandhi held; husband was civil engineer, his promotions; drinking champagne on birthdays; feels we should help people, but should leave nations to sort out their own muddles; now British are making trouble in Rhodesia; hazards of speaking on BBC; her contributions to the Salvation Army, admires their work with the dregs of humanity; will give money to medical missionaries, but thinks missionary work is wrong; most people don=t have much in the way of religion; views on religion; let an Indian family live with her because they were denied housing; neighbors who disliked brown-skinned people in their neighborhood; trying to explain racism to an Indian child; children in this Indian family had very nice manners; interaction with missionary named Sir Henry Holland.

transitory nature of British in India, hard to make friends; Kate trained as nurse, ran away to Serbian War; description of her nurse training in Belgium; joined voluntary unit; Serbia in 1915; people=s dislike of officers in hospitals; Kate worked at Red Cross hospital; after war, worked at hospital in London during flu epidemic; friend urged her to go to India; early impressions of India; inability of West and East to understand each other; friction with hospital staff where she worked in India; traveled in northern India in 1919; wanted to retire in Kashmir, but not possible now; respectable accommodations for women in India; British can=t understand why Indians think women need protection; the country you=re in dictates what is right and what is wrong; man convinced her to marry and stay in India, first had post in small town; viceroys in India; use of swords, violence; slept in a converted tomb; transferred to Poona at end of 1920; took care of 15 boys as assistant to the secretary; house had only two bedrooms; allotment of servants depending on salary; many expenses in India; even the servants had servants; servants were mostly very good, trustworthy, loyal; tried not to tempt servants by leaving valuables or alcohol around; night watchmen were criminal tribesmen from jail; retribution on Brit who didn=t want to employ a watchman; king Edward VII=s trip to yacht club at Bombay Harbor; yacht clubs segregated between Indian and British; benefits of joining clubs; libraries; types of books they liked to read; read Sunday Mirrors at club in Borneo; subscribed to service that sent books from England; wrote angry letter about the low quality of the literature sent to her; describes her tastes in books; description of Poona; husband=s executive post in Poona, his popularity there; fighting for the people to get more money for their rice; other officers who supported indigenous people; four different languages spoken in region; segregated Indian clubs; wealthy club-goers in Bombay; mixed club called ABi Color Club@; people with different ways didn=t mix well; husband Bill=s first night in Bombay, stayed in hostel; wealthier class of British went to India before the war; people thought we lived at ease and did nothing, but it was a very busy life; had no stoves, makeshift furniture made of boxes; business people in India lived luxuriously; boiling, bottling and cooling milk; worries about cobras at night; British women made bread, jam, chocolates; huge dam built, luxury of having lots of water; had electric lights but no refrigerators; beautiful place but very lonely for her; inadequacy of telephones; got short notice that 11-14 people were coming to visit and stay with them; played tennis; bathed daily; houses built off ground to keep away from wild animals; encounter with a cobra near the bookcase.